Comment thread on article: “Liberty once lost is lost forever”

There is so much on the table, so let me again attempt to dig into one issue at a time. You state “That doesn't negate the fact that "presbuteros" *is* an office.” It simply is not as the word does mean elder as in age. We are called to mature in wisdom and age allows time to do so, but that is not often achieved. A wise elder is called to be “eldering” or “presbeuō” the verb form of elder which is often translated as ambassador. An ambassador is not the authority but an authorized messenger that conveys the authority’s message. It is not an office that has authority, but a duty.

Using Eph 4:11-12 and claiming those are offices in the sense of authority is in contrast to what is written. These are gifts or abilities given by the Lord for the receiver to do the duty required. A good example is the teacher. The mature are called to teach, but not take on the title of teacher (Mat 23:8) which would imply authority. The teacher proclaims the Lord, but is not assigned any authority.

1Ti3:1 describes a work or duty to be desired, not an office to acquire. “επισκοπης” (episkopē) is the genitive form of the noun describing the duty of oversight. Verse 2 describes the person doing that duty or “επισκοπον” (episkopos) and the characteristics he must have. Again it is a duty and no authority is conveyed. It is a responsibility for oversight, but does not grant authority to the overseer.

Keep in mind the verb form is “επισκεπτεσθαι” (episkeptomai) which is most often seen as some form of “visit”, such as in James 1:27 “to visit orphans and widows”. This again is a duty as seen in a serious act of love, not an office with authority.

The word is based on “σκοπῶν” (skopeō) which is seen as the watchman or a goal. It is where we get the English skeptic. It is the idea of digging into something, observing, watching, or contemplating. My use of “dig” in my opening was a play on this idea. It is seen in Gal 6:1 “looking to yourself” or Php 3:17 “observe those who walk according to the pattern”. It is a foundation of what we are to do or a duty, not a basis for authority being granted.

Titus 1:5 is to appoint or set in place elders for a duty, it is not to appoint men to the office of elder. It is not to appoint men to be older, but to appoint older men who have demonstrated characteristics for the duty of being an overseer, not the authority of an office.

This is how to consider the Scripture in full context.