Derek Science & TechNews & PoliticsPersonal Updates

Dec 10 at 13:03 · Social ·

I'm going to go full on scorched earth on all IFB I find on facebook or twitter. They are a more serious threat to us all than the homosexuals.

No more Mr Niceguy. Not that was all that nice but 2019 I'm going to be myself and full of ugly with these cowardly, weak fools.

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Jay at AmericanTorah What does IFB stand for?

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·Dec 10 at 13:15·

Derek Independent Fundamental Baptist.

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·Dec 10 at 13:36·

Jay at AmericanTorah I'm not familiar with IFB. Is there a particular aspect of their theology/dogma/behavior that you find objectionable?

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·Dec 10 at 14:04·

untermann Da Raptcha Clan? They don't care what happens on earth because they think they're leaving when it gets bad.

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·Dec 10 at 14:21·

Derek Well a lot of them are actually post trib but spoiled little selfish brats just the same.

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·Dec 10 at 14:58·

layneknightohdo hillary is a baptist ?

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·Dec 10 at 15:09·

Derek She is also a "woman".

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·Dec 10 at 15:54·

midnightblue I'm just a Christian, I'm not religious or church going. I read the Bible and believe in Jesus/ God.

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·Dec 10 at 15:38·

Mike Andry midnightblue, good point. Furthermore, the Protestant Movement is a descendant of the Catholic Church, the Knights Templar, and the Rosicrucian Movement. These denominations didn't come out of nowhere. With that said, we must ask: Do these movements all have a common denominator of countering (that is, opposition to) TRUE Christianity?

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·Dec 10 at 16:44·Edited

ShofarNexus.com @midnightblue, @mikeandry1994,

Agreed that the institutional church is a fraud, there is no call in Scripture to form one, The church or “ekklēsia” is an assembly of the people and not a building or institution, which is also true of the synagogue. The tithe was for the Levites and therefore is no longer required and those that promote it are deceivers or thieves. Paul’s greetings to churches was always to those that met at someone’s home, and he went house to house.

Give that, what does define Christianity, and who is really following the Lord Jesus Christ? Is the Bible fully true and God breathed (2Tim3:16)? Is Jesus really the way, the truth and the life (John 14:6)? If we are called not to neglect meeting together (Heb 10:25), how is it to be done?

Simple questions. Any thoughts?

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·Dec 10 at 18:15·

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rhonda4free Remember, even in the early days as the "Way" spread some decided that aspects of Jewish Traditions needed to be added in order for the Gentile Believers to be truly saved. Specifically circumcision. They followed Paul from city to city opposing him and were the instrument of his arrest in Jerusalem.

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·Dec 12 at 12:51·

rhonda4free Sorry, I hit enter to start a new paragraph. Yes, Paul did go from house to house and n several of his letters he addresses the Homeowner and the "church that meets in your home" but he dis go to the synagogues as well. There is nothing wrong with going to a building for the fellowship God requires, nor is it wrong to hold services In your home, you should if you are led of The Spirit, as many have started doing.

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·Dec 12 at 12:55·

rhonda4free Christianity has most always been defined historically by a select group of people, not called nor ordained by God to do so, which accounts for the state of Religion, that in almost No way resembles the initial movement. Jesus said, "Go and make Disciples" instead mankind has gone and erected buildings and spread false doctrine ad the enemy infiltrated and spread deception, misunderstanding and outright lies. Christians have become convinced that Most of Scripture no longer applies, or there is a new and better way to "do" what The Bible teaches.

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·Dec 12 at 12:59·

Cereus Datura I think Christianity as a religion left Christ a long time ago. I don't consider myself a Christian although I am a follower of Christ, which is why the early believers were branded with the name in Antioch. Which was not a complement as the [reportedly] 3rd largest city in the Roman Empire, it was almost completely pagan. Yes, The Bible is truly God Breathed, to believe any less would not make you a believer. Jesus is not only The Way, The Truth and The Life He Is THE ONLY WAY! There are many ways to assemble with like minded believers, without the trappings of an institution. House Churches, weekly group gatherings in various places, use your imagination. But Order and structure are a pre-requisite.

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·Dec 12 at 20:10·

andrewkrause Early Christians didn't exclusively meet in homes. Many continued to use Synagogues, others used Pagan Temples which were widely considered civic buildings in the Hellenic world. The first purpose-built church building was built by the Apostle Thomas in Kokkamangalam, India (one of seven churches founded there). Wherever they were not under persecution, Christian communities built churches or converted synagogues as common gathering places for the people of God, not because it was commanded, but because it did not burden (or empower) any one member of the congregation unduly. 

Christ Jesus charged his apostles with building His church, setting them as the foundation. While we can certainly be critical of corporatized churches who have corrupted the Word - most of which, I would like to point out, are latter Protestant churches, particularly Baptists - to attack in general the idea of the church, the ordination of ministers, the administration of the sacraments, and the performance of rites is to attack the foundations of the Church Christ established, and therefore Christ himself.

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·Dec 13 at 15:54·

ShofarNexus.com @mikeandry1994, @derek,

Gentlemen, both of you pointed out other things but neither addressed the idea of what is true.

So what if there are organized pseudo-Christian or non-Christian efforts. The big issue is what is true. As I have stated many times, if you have a 100% accurate understanding of eschatology, but have not love, you are still toast. Going to seminars, buying books, or watching videos on end times hoopla, does not make you redeemed before the Lord.

Take the low hanging fruit of my comment. The claims made for the tithe today are bogus. If I am wrong, it would be much better, and much more loving for someone to correct me from Scripture on my deeds, then to make sure I’m on the next tour of the country of Israel. If I am right, then there are people and organizations steeling from our neighbors. Perhaps the command to rebuke in Lev 19:17 is called for as it is the precursor to verse 18, to love our neighbor.

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·Dec 10 at 21:07·

rhonda4free I do not agree with the tithing as taught today. It is based on the Old Covenant, which was as you said meant to support The Levites who did not have the same share as the other 12 Tribes. Paul's letters indicate that collections were taken up when he came through Corinth [ 1 Corinthians 16:1-4 ] but in order to expedite the matter, he advised them to set aside a portion of their earnings every week. These funds were intended for those Believers who lived in Jerusalem. This was Not a Tithe. What happened when the initial outpouring of The Holy Spirit took place is very similar, landowners Sold property and valuable possessions and donated the revenue, so that All might benefit, Not just the Apostles. The Philippians sent money to Paul on his journey in support of his ministry, hence the scripture folks love to quote, out of context I might add about God supplying All their needs. Philippians 4:15-20 covers how and why this is possible. I believe if you attend a congregation, you should support the ministry, after all the electricity needs to work, rent, lease or mortgage has to be paid and so forth. I struggled with this for any years and finally The LORD answered and gave me the solution, which I adhere to without deviating from it, not matter what they say when they get up to take an offering. I give an offering I do Not tithe!

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·Dec 12 at 13:19·

Mike Andry I must admit; this is an area where I've been falling behind. I, at least for the most part,

haven't been very good at helping other people become Christians. I'll need to pray and read The Word some more, then figure out how to solve the problem.

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·Dec 10 at 21:27·

gtolle

The problem is that these people ARE Christians. Perhaps the solution, in this case, is to do what Paul did to the young woman in Acts 16:18 and force the Spirit out of them. Obviously it is too much for them to handle!

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·Dec 10 at 22:33·

rhonda4free Great response, Pray and Read The Word is exactly what you should be doing. Now take it one step further and Ask The LORD Who you should minister too. If your light shines brightly enough through your lifestyle, others around you will be drawn to you because of the difference the can observe in you. There is not need to have christian paraphilia all around you to advertise your faith. Faith In Christ comes from the inside, and cannot be hidden.

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·Dec 12 at 13:22·

gtolle I have not been following this particular slice of knot-fockery. Wow! In looking up more about it I found what I suspect is a decent description of its fundamentals in a "HuffPo" article in 2012 (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-shore/the-fundamentally-toxic-christianity_b_1874264.html). 

I was particularly impressed by their adherence to the strict letter of their interpretation of christian law, especially the following point:

"Each IFB church is wholly autonomous and free from any outside 

governance. Its pastor is divinely appointed and accountable to no 

earthly authority. He speaks for God, and God alone may judge him. To 

question the sovereignty of the pastor is to disturb God’s order and 

invite upon oneself separation from the church, and therefore from the 

very source of salvation and hope."

I think that we need to encourage them to go that extra step and each and every one of them needs to become an independent and stand-alone church. Every one of them has obviously been touched by God so every one of them should consider hirself "divinely appointed and accountable to no earthly governance". 

Oops, wait! That won't work. If everyone of them is an independent church, then who will they bilk their money from?

The fundamentally toxic christianity

JOHN SHORE

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·Dec 10 at 22:28·

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Derek but the rest is mostly true and some pastors surely do get a bit full of themselves.

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·Dec 10 at 22:31·

gtolle "A church is not the source of salvation."

True enough but it is a vehicle of salvation and, when you put people answerable to no laws except their own behind the wheel, you tend to end up somewhere where you didn't intend to go.

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·Dec 10 at 23:01·

Derek I have tolerated your faggotry long enough @gtolle say hello to my little block.

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·Dec 10 at 23:04·

rhonda4free Can you say CULT!?

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·Dec 12 at 13:24·

Cereus Datura Pastors have been elevated to a role that is not found in scripture, yes some elevated themselves, but I meet all sorts of people who act as though their pastor was a god, and treat them as such. Can't think for themselves and certainly don't spend any time in The Word to verify if what the pastor says is accurate or not. I don't care how many scriptures the tack onto their message, it has to be contextually accurate.

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·Dec 12 at 20:16·

ShofarNexus.com @mikeandry1994, @gtolle, @derek,

We must clearly differentiate from what it is to call yourself a Christian and what it is to be a Christian. Matthew 7:21-23, 25:1-22, Luke 6:46-49, 13:22-30 give some direct evidence of this. The question we must always ask ourselves is if we follow things like John14:15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.” This is part of working “out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12)

On the other hand when we look at others, we must be very careful not to condemn any as out of reach of the Lord. How many would have believed the “young man” at the stoning of Stephen would go on to write much of the New Testament (Act 7:58)? Consider that when you think about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, that jerk down the street, or the one who left the comment you don’t like.

Also don’t be distracted with “doing more” or getting a larger audience. The “Great Commission” is not a call to evangelism but to make disciples. That requires a serious investment of time in individuals. If you want to be before a crowd or behind a pulpit, then the focus is you. If you want to love, invest time in direct relationships and focus on them.

It is true that salvation is not found in an institution. When Jesus states “I will build my church” in Matthew 16:18, it is “ekklēsia” or a called out assembly of people. It is NEVER used to describe and institution. When people are driven by an institution, those behind the wheel tend to run the people into a ditch.

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·Dec 10 at 23:07·

ShofarNexus.com @derek,

While the discussion of a 7 year tribulation sells a lot of books and movies, it is only a pre-milenienial position, which is popular but not necessarily on solid ground. John 16:33 make it clear that “In the world you will have tribulation.” So for the follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is not 7 years, but life itself.

@rhonda4free,

You are right that many Jewish traditions had to be addressed and contrasted to the simplicity of Christ. But remember that “ekklēsia” or “church” and “sunagōgē” or “synagogue” are both essentially a gathering or assembly and neither is a building. I think we agree that it isn’t the building but the people.

You are right that so many think the Scripture is no longer applicable. In one sense, we are not called to set out to cross the Red Sea on dry ground today. In another sense, we are called to set out in the same full trust in the Lord. That would be one example of many. But then there are things that are blatantly clear and never repealed, such as God’s first command to man in Genesis 1:28 “Be fruitful and multiply”. You want to cause a bit of heat in a conversation, bring that one up. And of course Leviticus 19:18 was repeated and remains one of our two priorities, “love you neighbor”.

@cereusly,

It seems we are on the same page, but I would appreciate some clarification on “Order and structure”. Order I see in 1Co 14:40, but what do you mean with structure?

Perhaps we also agree that the “pastor” is not a position in an institution but a calling for those with the gift of being able to “shepherd” others. It is not an idea of someone behind a pulpit, which is not found in Scripture, but direct care of individuals, and I don’t think you can do that with more than a dozen or two.

@andrewkrause,

Using the Scripture alone as our reference, I don’t see any clear evidence of a church building. At the same time Jesus used the temple in Jerusalem to teach, but there is no command in Scripture to build one. So there is a difference between using what is at hand, and building something assuming a command to do so.

When we include history we can see so many man-made institutions and buildings, but we cannot use this as a command of the Lord. While I don’t have it clear in my mind, it seems that when gatherings grow beyond what can be handled in a home, numerous issues arise and structure replaces love. This is something I am trying to work through and welcome a serious dialog on this alone. When it comes to sacraments or rites, it appears they are more promoted by the institution to justify the institution. For example, I think a reasonable argument can be made that the “Lord’s Supper” is a meal and not a bit of bread and wine or juice. Then there is the one I have done the most study on that there is no marriage ceremony, only a celebration and marriage begins with sex and ends with death.

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·3 minutes ago·